What is gothic and what does it mean to be a goth?
This very question has been the source of many disagreements and no small amount of gatekeeping, and I think everyone who may have ever identified as goth (or presented as distinctly gothic while vehemently denying any association, which happens more than you might think) would give a different answer. For me it is at it’s core an aesthetic, and a fascination with things that may be considered morbid or macabre. The two primary ways this manifests identifiably are in music and in fashion. I think for many who were perhaps disenfranchised outsiders it was a way to find a like-minded group of individuals – which could be said to be true of any subculture – but I think what draws certain people to the gothic subculture specifically is the appeal of the macabre. I think there’s a bit of a misconception that goths are mopey and depressed a lot of the time, but I think the reality is that in many cases goths have faced depression (or similar circumstances) head on and accepted it – revelling in the expression of something that might be uncomfortable to others – in my experience goths are by and large smart, sensitive, empathetic and funny, although the humour tends towards the dark and absurd.

When did you get into the goth scene?
When I was about 12 or 13 (in the mid-late 80s). I was somewhat socially awkward, a bit of a computer geek (before it was cool) and inclined to keep to myself. I discovered some bands that started out perhaps peripherally aligned to goth, and followed that thread to discover other, similar music which became progressively more gothic, as that is what appealed to me the most. This is before the internet was as ubiquitous as it is now, so there was no easy source of information, you had to scour through record bins making snap decisions based on the style of a record cover, or read through reviews in magazines to pick up clues as to what may appeal – I also had a copy of Mick Mercer’s ‘Gothic Rock Black Book’ which I had annotated with all the albums I wanted to buy, but some of them were hard to find in NZ in those days (no online ordering) – from my early to late teens what started out as an interest in punk, then branched off into The Cure (one of the better known and more easily accessible bands that is associated with goth) led to the Birthday Party (Nick Cave’s band before he enlisted the Bad Seeds), Siouxsie and the Banshees, the Sisters of Mercy, Bauhaus, and Christian Death which were all fairly formative for me. I also dabbled in early industrial such as Einstürzende Neubauten- so for me I suppose it started with the music, although at the same time I was reading Edgar Allan Poe and Mervyn Peake which could also be said to have influenced the contemporary gothic style. Being the aforementioned socially awkward individual I was I didn’t really seek out like-minded people until later.

What was the goth scene like in Auckland in the 80s and 90s?
As previously mentioned I was somewhat socially awkward as a youth, so my first steps to discovering like-minded people were somewhat tentative and started when I first went to university and met a few overtly gothic people there. Even so I was pretty shy initially. There were a number of events organised by Club Bizarre/Bizarre Beats who put in a lot of work in those formative years and had a music label as well as a shop on K Rd for a while (which also sold Virus clothing – a very distinctive label which was favoured by many goths in those days) and produced a magazine (Intravene) which helped introduce me to more local music, there was a period in the 90s where I wasn’t going out so much but I believe there was a very active scene – it’s just that I was largely absent from it – it probably wasn’t until the early 2000s that I became more personally involved – I met my (now former) partner who was very prominent in the scene as an organiser, DJ and performer, and so I became peripherally involved in organising regular (monthly) goth nights and some gigs (including a few international acts).

In the 80s and 90s, what made someone a ‘real goth’?
Again this is a somewhat contentious issue, with as many answers as there were ‘goths’ (or ‘not-a-goths’) – some prioritised music over fashion and for others it was fashion first. Musical taste is personal and subjective, as is fashion sense, I think it’s harmful to exclude someone if they don’t like this or that specific band, in my view if someone broadly clicked with the aesthetic even if not precisely in some pre-ordained way that was more than adequate, but even back then there was an element of gatekeeping, which led to the ‘not-a-goth’ phenomenon (can’t be excluded from the subculture if you were never part of it to begin with).

How did the scene change from the 80s to early 2000s?
I should preface all of this this by saying I am by no means an authority, this is solely based on the personal experience of someone who was a lot of the time not at the core of what was happening socially.

I think any perception of change would to a large degree be influenced by my personal evolution, so it is difficult to be objective, I was a teenager in the late 80s and gothic fashion and music was cool and exciting to me, but in a way kind of distant. All the cool bands were overseas, there was very little chance of them ever coming here, I was extremely shy so any goths that I saw out were fascinating but somewhat intimidating. As I grew older and met more people things came into sharper focus. There was, at various times, an influx of new people, the rise in popularity of Marilyn Manson brought a new type of goth, and not all of the old guard approved. There was also a bit of a diaspora from emo, and the rise of EBM brought the cybergoth style which was a hybrid of industrial and rave – so in a way the definition of goth had to stretch and distort to encompass these new adaptations.

Which subcultures were intersecting with goth?
There was always a bit of an overlap with punk, considering goth was born (or mutated) from post-punk, also a bit of overlap with metal, particularly black metal and death metal, also EBM came out of a blend of industrial and electronica so there’s a bit of an overlap with the dance scene and some of the EBM style was influenced by rave culture.

What elements of goth appealed most to you?
When I was the aforementioned shy and awkward youth I found it difficult to relate to the ‘mainstream’ (for want of a better word) and sought something that aligned better with my interest in the macabre aesthetic and spoke to my sense of isolation – as I became more aware of the subculture I found the style fascinating, even if a little intimidating initially, and I found the music relatable and energizing, with an authenticity that I felt the mainstream lacked.

How did goth music start?
I think it was a natural step from post-punk (which in turn originated from punk as the name would suggest) as it gradually became less outwardly aggressive and more introspective. I’d say the pioneering bands were Bauhaus (their debut single “Bela Lugosi’s Dead” is often credited as sparking the whole thing), Joy Division and Siouxsie and the Banshees, but of course they too had their influences, nothing is created in a vacuum.

Where should readers start if they wanna get into goth music?
Goth music itself is fairly broad, some can have a more punky influence, some more ethereal/ambient, some more metal/rock, and some more electronic/industrial. So depending on personal preference dig about the internet and find something that appeals, then follow that thread to its conclusion. Some of the bands I list under ‘best goth albums’ were very influential in the early days, but there is a great deal more to discover, although given that music taste is very personal that’s a journey of discovery you will have to undertake yourself. That said here are some newer(-ish) bands which appealed to me personally although some of them are not still active, they may spark your investigations Preoccupations VANIISH (formerly Veil Veil Vanish – also worth a listen) Houses of Heaven O Children Esben and the Witch Cold Cave Chelsea Wolfe

Best goth albums to you?
It’s hard to narrow it down, but these questions have made me somewhat nostalgic so I’m thinking back to the soundtrack of my youth, which was predominantly; Bauhaus – Mask Bauhaus – The Sky’s Gone Out Christian Death – Catastrophe ballet Christian Death – Ashes The Birthday Party – Prayers on Fire Sex Gang Children – Song and Legend Siouxsie and the Banshees – Kaleidoscope The Sisters of Mercy – First and Last and Always Einstürzende Neubauten – Haus der Lüge Einstürzende Neubauten – Tabula Rasa

Any good kiwi goth musicians or bands?
There have been a handful although I don’t know if any are still active, most of the ones I know probably aren’t, it’s been a while, although you could probably dig up their corpses on bandcamp or soundcloud. N.U.T.E Keller Kinder Winterland Stars and the Underground Dr Kevorkian and the Suicide Machine 1995 Mellow Grave Probably a few more which I’ve long forgotten There are also a number of bands which weren’t goth bands specifically, as they were more experimental, but lend themselves to the aesthetic Skeptics Fetus Productions Children’s Hour / early Headless Chickens
Is goth more about the cinema, fashion, literature, architecture, or music?
I think it is an interplay of influences, the architecture and literature obviously pre-date the contemporary subculture, but I would say the subculture was named based on literary influences which was in turn named after the elaborate architectural style. The contemporary gothic subculture is probably more centred around the fashion and music, but borrows from those earlier more broadly gothic influences. Gothic cinema is typically more inclined to suspense and horror, for example Nosferatu, Suspiria and the films of Ken Russell, but the subculture may have in turn influenced the films of Tim Burton. The literature also tends to horror, for example the works of Edgar Allan Poe, Franz Kafka, H.P. Lovecraft, Mary Shelley, Bram Stoker’s Dracula and The Picture of Dorian Gray by Oscar Wilde are often cited as works of gothic fiction.

Have I missed any mediums of goth?
I think that pretty much covers it, unless we want to invent gothic cuisine. An overabundance of squid ink, perhaps.

How would you define gothic literature?
I think for the most part gothic fiction is typically driven by themes of the supernatural or occult, with a strong element of horror, and often strong emotional themes of yearning, loss or oppression as well as loss of sanity.

Do you expect goth music to capture the zeitgeist again as intensely as grunge, shoegaze, and nu metal have come back into trend?
I would welcome a resurgence of gothic style and music. Occasionally I try to seek out new gothically-aligned music, but I think even anything I’ve found is probably quite dated by now.

What should students interested in the gothic style read?
If they want to read about the gothic subculture, then Mick Mercer is probably a great place to start, a reporter and archivist who has been there from the beginning. http://www.mickmercer.com/ I’m not sure if there is any contemporary equivalent. If they want to read gothic literature, then some of the authors I mentioned above, plus notable mentions also go to The King in Yellow by Robert W. Chambers and The Yellow Wallpaper a short story by Charlotte Perkins Gilman.

How has being goth effected your life and perspective?
I think part of what drew me to it in the first place was a sense of not fitting in, so I think in turn it has made me more accepting and understanding of outsiders, of people struggling with their identity, of people struggling with a sense of belonging.

@virusclothingnz